almost 5 yearsago -/u/LeagueOfLegends-Direct link
EDIT: Thanks for all your questions! That's the end of our Mordekaiser AMA! We'll continue to hop into the thread throughout the day and answer as we can.
__________________________________________
Put on your armor and enter the realm of death with us as we answer all of your questions about the Iron Revenant. Starting now, feel free to post your questions and the team will be here to answer them from 11:00 AM PT to 1:30 PM PT.
These souls will be here for your not-quite-eternal servitude:
/u/Reav3 - Production | /u/RiotXenogenic - Design | /u/EndlessPillows - Design | /u/RiotmChao - Narrative | /u/NealWojahn - VFX | /u/Kindlejack - Concept Art | /u/shioshoujo - Comms
Mordekaiser Information:
- Gameplay Preview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=GcR1_McnJbU
- Champion Theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-ru3nPuSn8
- Mordekaiser: Reimagining the Iron Revenant-Behind the Scenes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cc0kgY--5tc
- Universe: https://universe.leagueoflegends.com/en_US/champion/mordekaiser
almost 5 yearsago -/u/Reav3-Direct link
Originally posted bymalroux
Favorite mord skin?
Infernal
almost 5 yearsago -/u/RiotXenogenic-Direct link
Originally posted byodh1412
Do you expect the number of bugs associated with Morde to increase or decrease as a result of the rework?
New Morde looks pretty cool so far!
Almost certainly less. It's actually incredible how many bugs the old Morde had. I was told at one point he was responsible for 80% of our live bugs, and I don't think they were exaggerating.
So as long as this one is 79% of our live bugs or less, I will consider it a success on the bug-squashing front.
almost 5 yearsago -/u/RiotXenogenic-Direct link
Originally posted bypuberty1
In the video about making the new Mordekaiser, you guys talked about trying to make his old ultimate be a part of his kit for a lot of time. Can y'all expand on that and talk about this experiment?
Certainly. We conjured up the idea of him going to the death realm with his ult very early in development, and in the early stages, the ghost was virtually a "must have." So that output lived in a number of places while we iterated and tested. Sometimes, we'd have a version where if you killed someone in the death realm, you got their ghost. And that ghost output went from being a fully controllable pet to being something that followed you and just auto-attacked to something that would just be there visually giving you stats (similar to what we have now, minus the visuals).
The coolest/craziest version we tried was a passive version where any time he killed an enemy champion, their ghost would fall in line behind him and attack his target when he attacked - and he could have more than one, meaning he could ultimately enslave the entire enemy team if he was popping off.
That was really cool thematically but had a couple of major issues, the two foremost ones being: 1) to make those ghosts meaningfully powerful, he would have to lose a lot of power from his other abilities to make room, which then means he's less satisfying to play until he gets a kill and has a ghost, and 2) it would've taken a ton of development resources to make that look and feel good, and we got to a point where it was either: chase ghost improvements, or work on making the death realm a reality. We felt that pouring everything we had into the death realm was going to be better for the Morde experience.
almost 5 yearsago -/u/EndlessPillows-Direct link
Originally posted byBDJQP
When did you decide to have his ultimate happen in another dimension?
Justin landed on this one pretty early on actually.
almost 5 yearsago -/u/EndlessPillows-Direct link
Originally posted byluluinstalock
ayyyylmao
gotem
almost 5 yearsago -/u/EndlessPillows-Direct link
Originally posted bymcasterix123
Are you worried that having his passive up for so long + being able to reset the timer back to 5 seconds might be a balance problem, particularly at low skill levels?
Juggernauts are usually more powerful in lower skill games, we don't think Mordekaiser will be very different in that respect.
almost 5 yearsago -/u/EndlessPillows-Direct link
Originally posted byIIIITTIIII
for me this was the best champion rework in a while congrats!!
Thanks so much!
almost 5 yearsago -/u/EndlessPillows-Direct link
Originally posted byBurakkiSan
The ult reminds me a lot the ideas Riot had for Fiora but, couldn’t balance it enough. How did you work on balancing it?
A lot of the problems with the Fiora version weren't balance. Some of it was that the game stopped and everyone had to watch this 1v1 (Which was pretty disruptive). Also, Fiora is the "Grand Dullest", so she would win almost every single 1v1 possible.
almost 5 yearsago -/u/EndlessPillows-Direct link
Originally posted byAladiah
What do you think about the skill expression of this Mordekaiser? I feel like it's so low he'll only be strong if his numbers are there.
Unlike Darius for example, who can turn around a squirmish by hitting a good Q, this new Mordekaiser seems too binary. Either you hit the E so you can engage and active the passive or you can't. And unlike the old Mordekaiser, the shielding and healing on this one is unnaffected by the enemies around you, and the long CD on the skill makes it feel like a one-time big shield, instead of a constant shield generation and burst healing.
See AlsoCan You Cleanse Out Of Mordekaiser ULT? - CaniryCleanse (Summoner Spell)The Best Items Against Mordekaiser in League of LegendsTips for removing Mordekaiser ULT - Advantage Biz MarketingOverall I think that the rework is fine, but I feel like the champion lost quite a lot of complexity compared to the old one.
Mordekaiser was a VERY complex champion, and one of the goals was to make him more approachable while trying to keep the feelings/essence of him in-tact.
Morde's new W is increased based on the damage he deals, so the number of targets nearby can for sure increase the output of the spell.
I still think there is a lot of skill expression in the new Morde, it will just take some time for players to discover.
almost 5 yearsago -/u/EndlessPillows-Direct link
Originally posted byducetiger
How do you sleep at night?
I don't often.
almost 5 yearsago -/u/EndlessPillows-Direct link
Originally posted byMulti21
morde is my highest mastery champion, and this rework is honestly amazing. he plays and can do what he used to do before rework, but also has his own niche now with the new ult instead of just more damage.
in the 2015 rework, AD ratios were added to some of his abilties. did you guys ever think about making morde also scale with AD with the rework?
We actually had some AD ratios in testing for awhile (Thanks to /u/MaliciousMetal 's suggestion). This actually ended up limiting his item options significantly. Gunblade was 100% required and you couldn't really customize your build outside of standard juggernaut stuff. It removed a lot of what was cool about being AP.
almost 5 yearsago -/u/EndlessPillows-Direct link
Originally posted byBerserk72
Would you rather have Morde be the champion that wins the final game for NA or EU at worlds or get the highest selling skin of all time?
First one for sure.
almost 5 yearsago -/u/EndlessPillows-Direct link
Originally posted byaccursedg
Why does qss and champion cleanses remove champs from the realm but not the summoner spell cleanse
We treated MordeR as closely as we could to a suppression effect.
almost 5 yearsago -/u/RiotXenogenic-Direct link
Originally posted byPrinz_
Traditional question: what were some scrapped abilities that morde had in his rework?
A few I can still remember (it's been a while!):
Passives:
-Every kill/assist enslaves the enemy's ghost, forcing them to serve Mordekaiser for a duration and assist him in attacking his target. He could have up to all 5
-His basic attack speed was exceptionally slow, but auto-attacking enemies would grant a stack that significantly increased his attack speed. The metaphor here was his mace was a living weapon, and that attacking enemies allowed it to create an ethereal chain and become more of a flail than just a mace, thereby giving him that attack speed and additional range
Q:
-Early testing was done around what it might be like to have contextual changes to his Q shape. We messed around with things like: when you press Q, he starts marching forward in a straight line, then when you re-press Q, the location of your mouse relative to his facing would give a different swing. Something like:
Forward - if the mouse is in front of him, he slams his hammer down forward.
Either side - if the mouse is to his left or his right, he sweeps it from front to back in that respective direction, knocking things forward and a bit sideways
Behind - He either heaves his mace backwards, dealing significant damage behind him, or he just does a larger swing that deals damage behind him as the mace goes from behind to in front. Longer cast time than the forward Q, higher damage
W:
-This was the last ability to get locked, so there were a lot, but they were all focused around defensive outputs. We tried things like: he becomes his wraith form and is untargetable but can't attack. He gains armor/MR based on nearby enemies and becomes immune to slows.
E:
-My favorite ability we tested here was: he shot a circular missile forward that moved very slowly and opened a rift to the death realm. It would deal damage to enemies it passed over and put them into the death realm temporarily while they were in it, making them unable to interact with people outside (just like the R rules). Morde could also walk with it to be inside the death realm as long as he moved with it, making him untargetable while he approached enemies
R:
-This was basically always the death realm from the beginning of the rework, but we tried a lot of versions. The first version we did was:-Morde targets an enemy and a circle appears around them and Morde. After X seconds, everyone inside those circles is pulled into the death realm and all of those folks inside can fight.
-That ended up being too difficult to actually get into a lot of times, so we changed it to: after X seconds, clickable objects (like Thresh lanterns) are left where Morde and his target were when they went into the death realm, and anyone can click on those to join the fight in the death realm.
-All of those multi-person versions just became a chaotic mess that wasn't very fun to participate in, so we gravitated towards the 1v1. Then we tried a lot of different cast paradigms, like shooting a longer-range skillshot (like Urgot R) that would take the first enemy hit, to a version where Morde's spirit exits his armor and slowly floats towards the target and the first enemy his spirit touches goes into the spirit realm, etc.
almost 5 yearsago -/u/EndlessPillows-Direct link
Originally posted bybravesther
I think they might've meant the underlying code behind the champion being partially re-used, which I highly doubt anything was kept. You guys did a great job keeping his theme intact, as well as elements of his old kit. Even really small details like recasting his W to get a heal, like with the old W.
Oh yes, you are correct. We removed all of Morde's old scripts :)
almost 5 yearsago -/u/EndlessPillows-Direct link
Originally posted byducetiger
With a name like EndlessPillows I would have expected the opposite. I hope you can get some rest someday.
<3
almost 5 yearsago -/u/EndlessPillows-Direct link
Originally posted byGhostGamer1234
What gave you guys the idea for his ult given that there is nothing literally like it in the game?
Justin always talked about how he wanted to tell a story in-game about the world Mordekaiser is building. So the Death Realm ult was there right from the beginning, but we refined the specifics a lot over time.
almost 5 yearsago -/u/EndlessPillows-Direct link
Originally posted byRiotmChao
Yuumi, as a cat, has very specific ideas of what is and isn't a cat. I wouldn't let that color your understanding of Mordekaiser too much.
(...Mordekaiser is just a suit of armor filled with cats you didn't hear it from me)
I did hear it from you.
almost 5 yearsago -/u/RiotXenogenic-Direct link
Originally posted byi_dont_like_u_tbh
What about deleting turret's in Morde's Shadow Realm?
The initial version of the death realm featured that. Turrets stayed in the "real" world and couldn't target you. It was way too powerful, though, and it meant that a Mordekaiser that was ahead was virtually guaranteed to stay ahead because their lane opponent couldn't even use their turret as defense
almost 5 yearsago -/u/EndlessPillows-Direct link
Originally posted byAvalon15
Why the Stats ?
We wanted the ultimate to still be a moment of power for Morde. He has to 1v1 someone who DOES have a combat ultimate, so we need to even the odds a little bit. It's also a great thematic win for when he takes your soul.
almost 5 yearsago -/u/EndlessPillows-Direct link
Originally posted bySaulJoker
Why did you decide to allow his Ultimate to be cleansed by QSS and certain abilities but not summoner spell Cleanse?
We wanted the options to be as close to suppression as possible.
almost 5 yearsago -/u/EndlessPillows-Direct link
Originally posted byShouju
Why was he made to be so fast?
His Q cast time, his autos, passive movement speed, and the speed of his ult. I get that fast/low cd is more fun, but he's a juggernaut. There's something to be said for the power fantasy and overall fairness of being a terminator. Big, hard to kill, going to walk through hell to kill you. But instead he's more like an anime character, swinging his enormous weapon like it's weightless - which is still pretty cool.
He's actually quite slow compared to the rest of the cast. No mobility spells, Q and R are 0.5 second cast times (Standard is instant to 0.25 seconds), E takes 0.75 seconds to resolve (DariusE, a very similar spell, takes significantly less time). His auto attacks also take 0.5 seconds baseline, which is pushing the boundary as some of the longest in the game.
almost 5 yearsago -/u/RiotXenogenic-Direct link
Originally posted byTAE_Vokial
Hey, new Morde is amazing and I love the rework! I have a one question:Do you think that Morde may be hard to balance in lower MMR and higher MMR at the same time, because of his simple kit? In case of problems, do you consider adding more skill expression/depth to his skills?
It's intentional that he's relatively straightforward to play, so at least in the short term, it's unlikely we would add complexity to his kit to address balance concerns.
That straightforwardness might mean he's not particularly viable in high level play, but that's alright. Not every champ needs to be. I personally would argue not every champ should be. What pros need out of a champion is often very different than what a typical player wants out of a champion, and with how big our champion roster is, we should try to have options for everybody.
Edit: That said, he might get picked in pro-play - and that would be awesome! I'd be incredibly thrilled. Just stating that "pro viable" wasn't one of our high level goals.
almost 5 yearsago -/u/RiotXenogenic-Direct link
Originally posted byMaliciousMetal
More of a personal question than anything buuuut:
How did it feel working on this particular VGU?
Any concerns and fears you had going into it?
Anything you really tried pushing in the rework?
Did he deliver on what you guys set out to achieve?
What was your absolute favorite thing about Mordekaiser's VGU?
Anything that differed originally from what we ended up with?
Other than that, thanks for your amazing work on Mordekaiser!
You did my absolute favorite champion justice and I'm looking forward to what you guys have brewin' for the future!
I've been a League player since early alpha, and there was a decent stretch many years ago where I mostly played Morde. So, my biggest fear in doing this VGU (and I have this fear every VGU) was utterly ruining the champion for people who liked the old one. When I did Nunu, as an example, he had a couple of really iconic, good abilities (even by today's standards) so in a way, it made the rework a bit less stressful because from the beginning, I already knew what his Q and R were going to be. With Morde, he lacked anything that stood out as an iconic, great ability by today's standards, so we felt compelled to start from scratch on his kit - yet while trying to stay true to his essence/fantasy.
That's pretty stressful for me. You have to make a lot of assumptions, and even though we talked to Morde players, put in a lot of reps on live Morde to make sure we were feeling fresh on his current kit, there's always that risk of getting it totally wrong.
almost 5 yearsago -/u/RiotXenogenic-Direct link
Originally posted byInfinite_Delusion
What made you decide to add cleansable effects (besides Cleanse) to Morde's ult? It doesn't seem like a CC ability, and QSS no longer removes Debuffs. Just curious!
Also another thing, new Morde has very little sustain compared to old Morde. Was this one of his old issues, since mixing together lots of sustain and shielding might become problematic?
We were primarily looking to make sure that the ult wasn't a guaranteed long-duration banish. Without the ability to cleanse it, it makes the Morde player's choice around who to ult a lot less interesting. You basically would just build tanky and R the highest threat target and put them into a long time-out while your teams teamfight.
With the ability to get out of it, it motivates the Morde player to build offense so they are more than just a tanky CC bot, and to think more about who to ult, and why, and when.
almost 5 yearsago -/u/RiotXenogenic-Direct link
Originally posted bymatt7197
Morde went through a rework before. When you rework a reworked champion, is there an iteration you look upon as inspiration? Does the original morde take preference, juggernaut more, or do you focus on completely reworking the champ while simple holding onto to their theme?
Also, why does Riot rework champions in general? Why are older champions not left alone and new "reworked" kits not attached to a new champion so both can exist in the game?
For your first question: the high-level goal in VGU is to make the champion fulfill their promised fantasy and to better-serve the players that we believe should like the champion. So to also go into your second question, with Mordekaiser, you had this armored, mace-wielding character that was somewhat like a death knight, so you would expect players who want to play a character like that to enjoy him, but his kit's mechanics were such that he felt like this short to mid range mage, and not like what the fantasy should've been delviering.
So our goal was to keep aspects that were core and/or unique to him (examples: remain an AP juggernaut, find a way to retain "offense turns into defense," find a way to express death magic) but then craft a kit and experience that will delight players who want to play an armored, mace-wielding death knight type character.
Edit: And to tack on a bit more for your 2nd question, in this particular case, we don't want to make another character that is similar to Morde but better serves that fantasy or those players. It's just better to take him and rework him so he's still the one-true king of the death realm.
almost 5 yearsago -/u/RiotXenogenic-Direct link
Originally posted byCosmicGuide
What would Mordekaiser think of Urgot?
He would make a great addition to Morde's army of the dead
almost 5 yearsago -/u/RiotXenogenic-Direct link
Originally posted bySedirex_KR
Was his R called the Shadow Realm internally? Or did the community surprise you with that nickname?
We called it the shadow realm, spirit realm, death realm, etc. The name was pretty nebulous internally during development.
almost 5 yearsago -/u/RiotXenogenic-Direct link
Originally posted by-Falrein
Oh I had so many questions, but I thought there would be no AMA so I kind of forgot them all...? Well anyway let's see! Mordekaiser and the archetypes he represents aren't my jam, but he's a nicely written character! Although I have some questions...
1/ Mordekaiser looks like this unbeatable character that can't be killed because he's an armor and is probably immuned to damage on the physical plane. But I've always wondered, what happens if one was able to directly attack his soul...?
2/ A question that may have been answered, but many people think that Mordekaiser planned LeBlanc's betrayal in particular. Could you clarify if he planned a betrayal from her in particular, or if he had just planned to be brought down at some point, and didn't expect LeBlanc to betray him? I think that would help a lot!
3/ And finally, the silly question that I love to ask during AMAs, what do you think Mordekaiser would think of Syndra, if he had any opinion?
That'll be all for me! Thanks for hosting that AMA, and thanks for all your work! Love y'all! :D
I'm not a writer so this isn't the real rules or canon, but in my fantastical imagination, Mordekaiser's spirit is immortal and cannot be hurt, or killed. Ever.
almost 5 yearsago -/u/Reav3-Direct link
Originally posted bySpideraxe30
/u/Reav3 could I ask how come most of Morde's original team was sorta replaced and if it impeded development
It didn't impede development in any way, it was a pretty smooth process. Most of the kit direction was pretty locked when Endless hopped on so it was a easy transition. For Narrative Faux had his narrative personality and high level story already locked as well, so it was just a matter of writing the VO and color text based on that. For Art the high level concept was also already locked down by BravoRay so KindleJack mostly had to just work out all the details
almost 5 yearsago -/u/RiotXenogenic-Direct link
Originally posted byTheFatalWound
Q gives me hunting horn vibes (Monster Hunter)
I had played a ton of MH: World prior to taking on this project and was definitely inspired by the way using their big hammer felt, and the things you could do with it. Ditto for other 3rd person action games with heavy weapons that smash things - I was looking for a way to incorporate more of that into LoL, but in the end, it didn't pan out.
almost 5 yearsago -/u/EndlessPillows-Direct link
Originally posted byRainbowSushii666
but why is it only 10% stat steal if literally everything cancels it? i mean its probably so meaningless that i could live with the sheer 1v1 but you cant avoid it.
10% stat steal is quite a lot. Mid to late game it could be 4000+ gold worth of stats. And that's a swing. Meaning you have 8000+ more gold worth of stats than your target, even if they aren't in the Death Realm.
almost 5 yearsago -/u/EndlessPillows-Direct link
Originally posted byMidChampsWhere
I have no clue which side to go when Mord ults. I cannot see enemy markers and most of the time I end up in enemy side and even if i survive Mord, enemies kill anyhow.
Mord just flashes and ults mid or adc 100% of the time.
What were you thinking ?Its a very frustrating version of Mars ultimate which you copy pasted from Dota.
If you are looking for them, there are little spirits similar to the ones you see outside of the death realm that show you where champions outside are. They are color coded and shaped differently based on if they are enemies are allies.
You can buy a QSS, or play champions with CC removal to instantly leave the Death Realm any time it is cast on you.
And just for the record, this spell was in development for quite awhile before Mars launched ;)
almost 5 yearsago -/u/EndlessPillows-Direct link
Originally posted byAfrostLord
Why isn't this applied in the real game? I feel like it's sacrificing a ton of clarity for thematic purposes...
Unfortunately it's not thematic, it's tech. Spectator can see all champions at all times, and so we can do something closer to what we actually wanted to do.
In game, Death Realm works a lot like losing vision of the champions. Long story short, it's VERY difficult for your client to know what animations the champions are playing. We knew it was still important to have an idea of where they were though, so we use the wisps to communicate that.
almost 5 yearsago -/u/EndlessPillows-Direct link
Originally posted byRainbowSushii666
yeah at a point in a game that you normally dont reach atm. but if you consider which of the stats are usefull in that 1v1 you mostly dont end up by a 1 or 2 item difference. i mean if you ult someone with 600ap(whats barely happens if its not a veigar) you get 60ap he loses 60ap now you basically have stolen half an item considering that he also loses the ap but most items have way more then just 60ap (considering also hp and effects)
You'd be hard pressed to find games that don't normally make it past 15 min (Midgame).
And you steal a lot more than just AP. Like that HP you mentioned. Everything you steal is useful in the 1v1.
almost 5 yearsago -/u/RiotXenogenic-Direct link
Originally posted byFirCone
So does that turret not work anymore in the real world or is it copied over?
Turrets work in the real world and in the death realm. We decided that they should not be changed by the ult, so Morde's opponents can still use their turret to defend themselves
almost 5 yearsago -/u/RiotXenogenic-Direct link
Originally posted byMamacrowhelps
I know the AMA is over but wanted to ask you something, when you guys code these different abilities do you completely replace them or keep them stored somewhere just incase you ever want to make a champion that could use it as a starting point and save work.
Because our tools are pretty powerful and relatively easy to work with, we tend not to keep these abilities lying around. When we build them during prototype phase, they're in a pretty rough state, but we want to build them out quickly so we can test them and see if we want to pursue that direction or try another.
So if someone wants to reuse an idea we've had, it's not particularly costly for them to just rebuild it to a prototype level in the future. It's also somewhat unlikely we use earlier spells exactly the same as they were on a previous kit, so they will have to make changes anyway and it's likely easier to just build it from scratch so it does exactly what you want.
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